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First a story. I believe it was Princess Diana who was the first royal bride to omit the word “obey” from her vows when she married Prince Charles in 1981. Their vows were read aloud from the Book of Common Prayer.

Here’s a standard wedding vow from the Church of England: 

“WILT thou have this man to thy wedded husband, to live together after God’s ordinance in the holy estate of Matrimony? Wilt thou obey him, and serve him, love, honour, and keep him, in sickness and in health; and, forsaking all other, keep thee only unto him, so long as ye both shall live?”

She took that word “obey” out. This is very common in our world today. 

Especially with the women’s suffragist movement in the 1920’s in America, vows often now us “love and cherish” in replacement of the word “obey”.

Karni

“Brother if there’s one issue that has really characterized the anti-authority attitudes of our day and age alongside women’s roles in the church, I would say it’s this one, roles within marriage. The example you gave of Princess Diana definitely exemplifies that.

But as go the Scriptures, so do we strive to go on this podcast and we have addressed the submission issue before, right?”

Paul

We’ve talked quite a bit about submission in the past. For example, one question was: “Should husbands and Wives Mutually Submit?” The biblical answer is no. This question stems from Eph. 5:21, “submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.” 

That of course means that we are to submit to one another within our biblical roles, not that parents are to submit to their children or that husbands are to submit to their wives, or that masters are to submit to their servants. 

Another question was “Is a wife’s submission voluntary?” No, in the sense that we don’t have the moral prerogative to obey or not obey Scripture. It is commanded and we must obey. Wives are to submit to their husbands as Scripture teaches, unless he urges them to sin. 

Our question today is: “What does it mean for a wife to submit”? This stems from Eph. 5:22: “Wives, submit to your own husbands.”

Karni

The way you addressed that argument is a great example of taking a line of reasoning to its illogical conclusion. Parents aren’t called to obey instructions given from their children, although that doesn’t seem far-fetched in our looney day and age. But I’m sure nobody is expecting to go to work and start dishing out tasks for their employee to do during the day. It seems as though Scripture has spoken with such clarity but as I said a little earlier, this is a hot-button issue of our day and it seems like so many people, inside and outside of the church are just pushing back on it. 

Paul

Yes. Many in our supposed enlightened modern world do not like this definition of submit. I’m not just speaking about feminists either. Many conservative pastors want their people to know that “submit” has nothing to do with “obey”. Paul could have told wives to obey, the argument goes, as he will soon tell children to obey their parents in 6:1.

They say: But he didn’t because he wanted to show a greater equality between husband and wife. What Paul is saying is that wives should yield to their husbands, perhaps the way a senator may relent to a fellow senator, but not just to any government spokesman.

So maybe ‘yield,’ in a sense, but not obey. That would be the opinion of many circles. 

Karni

That’s sadly true, brother. To lean a bit on pastor Voddie Baucham’s thinking, this is a different kind of faultline we’re seeing create concerning issues within many conservative churches and circles. 

Let’s continue here. Talk to me about wedding vows and traditions. This issue of the word, ‘obey,’ used to be a widely accepted tradition but it seems that people may just want to do away with it. Is it just the evolution of culture and traditions here? Are people tossing all the traditions out?

Paul

Not all. I’ve seen statistics where a lot of the old traditions are still commonly practiced. For example, having a best man is still common. So is the bride throwing her bouquet and the father giving the bride away. 

But other traditions that have their moorings in biblical truth are falling away. For example, the wife taking her husband’s surname. That is becoming less popular, though this is a biblical way not only to show submission to the husband on the wife’s part but to show the one flesh union as described in Genesis 2:24. 

Or there is the groom asking permission from the bride’s father to marry his daughter. That too is a biblical tradition that is falling away. And most certainly the word “obey” in wedding vows is unpopular today. 

Here’s another example of a traditional vow: “I…take you to be my husband, to have and to hold from this day forward; for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and obey, till death us do part, according to God’s holy law.”

Karni

Okay, so it’s not just an issue of people trying to jettison tradition as a whole, just because it sounds King-Jamey, it’s a precise and pointed attack on the issue of obedience. 

Let’s bring more Scripture to bear on this issue. Why is the word ‘obedience,’ so important and does the Bible teach it? 

Paul

Eph. 5:22 says submit. So does Colossians 3:18, “Wives, submit to you husbands.” Place yourselves under their authority. Obey. 

First Peter 3 beautifully opens the drapes and illumines the practical meaning of the word “submit”. 

In order to encourage the women in the context to submit to their husbands with a gentle and quiet spirit, Peter gives them an example of holy women from the past. These women were “holy” in that they pleased God. 

These women were most likely the matriarchs like Sarah, Rebecca, and Rachel. They “hoped in God” not because they thought their husbands were morally pristine but because they trusted in God’s Word and plans. They had the continual habit of adorning themselves and making themselves beautiful. They did this by submitting themselves to their own husbands with (going back to v. 4) a meek and quiet spirit. 

Verse 6 gives a specific way this looked. Sarah “obeyed” her husband. This shows that submission contains the idea of obedience.

Karni

Those are some wonderful Old Testament examples of Sarah, her daughter-in-law, Rebecca, and Rebecca’s daughter-in-law, Rachel. 

From what you’ve said, it seems like obedience is equal to submission. Is that correct?

Paul

Not necessarily. Submission isn’t only obedience. It is possible to be obedient and not submissive. A wife isn’t submissive when she obeys her husband by saying: “I’ll have you know I just quit my job because you want me to ruin my life staying at home!” 

A wife certainly must be more than obedient but never less when it comes to submission. You can’t have a submissive wife that habitually disobeys her husband. You’ll never find a husband that says, “You know, my wife rarely listens to a word I say but, boy, is she submissive.”

Karni

Thanks, boti Paul. So, you’ve spoken to us about how things have changed in our day and age with the word, ‘obey’ being removed from wedding vows. You’ve addressed what it means for a wife to submit. You’ve even covered the current state of the church and wedding traditions. 

As we close, what would be some examples of how this wifely submission/obedience would look?

Paul

Thankfully, we don’t have to look far. Scripture gives it to us. 

We’re given an example of Sarah’s obedience when she called Abraham “lord” (v. 7). 

She did this in Genesis 18:12 after she had just been told she would have a child in her old age the next year.  “After I am worn out, and my lord is old, shall I have pleasure?”

Notice all the reasons the respect and dignity she shows Abraham was remarkable. 

(1) She was unprepared. She was caught off guard. Her words of submission weren’t from a speech she had spent the previous month preparing. 

(2) She was alone. She wasn’t using complementarian language to impress the ladies in the choir. 

(3) She was accustomed. She had been married for a long time. She wasn’t in the honeymoon stage of marriage where the wife thinks everything the husband does is perfect. How a woman acts decades into marriage is how she has been acting for quite some time. 

(4) She was unbelieving. This was a low point in her spiritual life most likely, yet she still honored her husband. In sum, Sarah made such a habit of respect for her husband that even when unguarded, alone, and fleshly, she still honored him.